I'm very surprised this hasn't been posted yet. C'mon guys, you're slacking on the 'bama bashing.

Anyway, here's a link about it:

Clicky

Now, this is all well and good because this action may speed up the process through which you can get a vaccination.

HOWEVER:

Declaring a national emergency basically gives the government an assload of power, including declaring martial law, making the vaccine manditory, quarantines, etc... But that's just the tin foil hat speaking.

BUT. One can't deny that this sort of declaration makes them at least a little nervous. Especially when you read something like this: fpc.state.gov

Quote:

Under the powers delegated by such statutes, the President may
seize property,
organize and control the means of production,
seize commodities,
assign military forces abroad,
institute martial law,
seize and control all transportation and communication,
regulate the operation of private enterprise,
restrict travel, and, in a variety of ways,
control the lives of UnitedStates citizens.

Meh. Nothing new there. Such powers have existed in the USA for centuries.

As an aside, I'd agree that hundreds dying, perhaps thousands by the time it's done, is indeed a National Emergency. I've been here 47 years, and not seen anything quite like this.

Over 30,000 people die every year from the regular seasonal flu, and it's not an emergency. Calling the H1N1 outbreak such is a fraud.

Also, I heard someone today say that their daughter was sick and went to the hospital this weekend and tested positive for the common flu. The nurse at the hospital told the guy that they are currently required to report any positive flu test to the CDC as H1N1. I've put out a couple of calls to family members that work in hospitals. I want to know if this is BS or not. On the surface, I find it hard to believe, but if it's true, couple false reporting with a declaration of a state of emergency, and we have a serious issue.

Greedy Capitalist Pig wrote:Over 30,000 people die every year from the regular seasonal flu, and it's not an emergency. Calling the H1N1 outbreak such is a fraud.

Also, I heard someone today say that their daughter was sick and went to the hospital this weekend and tested positive for the common flu. The nurse at the hospital told the guy that they are currently required to report any positive flu test to the CDC as H1N1. I've put out a couple of calls to family members that work in hospitals. I want to know if this is BS or not. On the surface, I find it hard to believe, but if it's true, couple false reporting with a declaration of a state of emergency, and we have a serious issue.

That's pretty ridiculous if it's true, seeing that my sister has been diagnosed with H1N1. I'll have to ask her about this.

Pig: What would be the alleged rationale supporting the decision to induce mass hysteria in this fashion? If there's a plot, there's a motive..what are you proposing it is?

Please spare me any Orwellian drama; an answer that fits the current situation will suffice.

He wasn't proposing any plot. He wanted to know if anyone knew if it was true.

Hmmm....control of communications.....maybe this is the way to outFOX his critics, and still get hailed as the great physician.


“Poor Al Gore. Global warming completely debunked via the very Internet you invented. Oh, oh, the irony!” -Jon Stewart

There it is! I saw the motive for a fleeting moment! You just said it, just after saying there is none. Do I have you guys spinning in circles?

No, I am breaking this down along logical lines. If one is proposing a cover-up, a conspiracy, a concealed agenda of some kind...then one is obviously inferring that there is a secret, veiled objective. You can't separate these concepts. So...what is the motivation to pull the wool over the eyes of the nation then? Just for fun, to see if they can do it? There has to be an answer to this, or the entire premise deflates into dishonesty, if not only with others, then with oneself. Say it loud, say it proud, just what does the right think the left is up to here?

Bill Hahn Jr. wrote:Do I have you guys spinning in circles?

Only in the sense that you have managed to fill up a few threads in a small amount of time with mostly claims of extremism and painting things with a broad brush.

Bill Hahn Jr. wrote:No, I am breaking this down along logical lines. If one is proposing a cover-up, a conspiracy, a concealed agenda of some kind...then one is obviously inferring that there is a secret, veiled objective. You can't separate these concepts. So...what is the motivation to pull the wool over the eyes of the nation then? Just for fun, to see if they can do it? There has to be an answer to this, or the entire premise deflates into dishonesty, if not only with others, then with oneself. Say it loud, say it proud, just what does the right think the left is up to here?

It is quite simple. The more fear people have, the easier it is to be the nanny-state and take care of everyone, ultimately leading to more power. It still has yet to be more aptly expressed than Lord Acton's words over 200 years ago. While you're unwilling to consider the Orwellian implications, there is a very good case to be made for it. Take it from someone who has read over 1,000 pages of legislation this year, which is less than half of what's been signed, and what is being pushed for current passage. Better yet, take the time to read some of it yourself. There has been a massive increase in the scope of power of the executive branch of the Federal Government, and no one is reporting it. The health care bill (any one of the 5 versions that have come out of the Senate committees) has even more of it, as does the Waxman Markey bill. When you consider any one of these things separately, it's easy to dismiss. However, when you step back for a minute, and look at the big picture, you can see the problem. There is a pattern of empowering the Federal Government to be far beyond what it was intended to be, and every step takes away personal liberty. Even if you support any of the measures they are trying to push, you have to admit that allowing all of these bills to be passed in such a short period of time is entirely unnecessary, and inherently dangerous.

I think you've taken umbrage at someone else being as verbose as you for a change! Sorry for that, but you've just provided such good opportunity these last couple of days...seems you've gone on RightOverload!

So you DO accuse this of being a...well, conspiracy with no other objective other than to...well, what is the objective again? To prove that some animals are more equal than others? Don't try to dazzle me with your knowledge on this years legislation...state the real rationale here. Don't think I'll be satisfied with some vague, imperious, sinister references. I want the real stuff.

Why are they doing it, and how are they making every medico go along with it, with nary a leak? This all doesn't seem highly improbable to you? It sure does to me...but seriously. State the alleged intention, and stay on point. Brevity, my man...

oops. double post again. sorry!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Tuesday, October 27, 2009 1:46 AM

I suppose I could ask you this billhahn: considering the comparitively s
all number of people that have died from h1n1, why the national emergency?

Instead of questioning the motives of why some guy questions the president, just question the original source.

Do you honestly believe h1n1 has surpassed the regular flu in victims?

Lately, it seems, instead of discussing an issue, you seem to do little more than: "oh yeah...where'd you hear that from...who told you to say that?". And you seem to to think that if a conservative type mag or site brought it up... Then it is part of some plot....nevermind the facts at hand...focus on the motive for printing the facts


“Poor Al Gore. Global warming completely debunked via the very Internet you invented. Oh, oh, the irony!” -Jon Stewart

ThatGuy85 wrote:

Greedy Capitalist Pig wrote:Over 30,000 people die every year from the regular seasonal flu, and it's not an emergency. Calling the H1N1 outbreak such is a fraud.

Also, I heard someone today say that their daughter was sick and went to the hospital this weekend and tested positive for the common flu. The nurse at the hospital told the guy that they are currently required to report any positive flu test to the CDC as H1N1. I've put out a couple of calls to family members that work in hospitals. I want to know if this is BS or not. On the surface, I find it hard to believe, but if it's true, couple false reporting with a declaration of a state of emergency, and we have a serious issue.

That's pretty ridiculous if it's true, seeing that my sister has been diagnosed with H1N1. I'll have to ask her about this.

An update on this. I talked to her and she actually DOES have the real H1N1. The doctor never mentioned anything about having to report all flu cases as the swine flu, so this is probably just a rumor.

ScottaWhite wrote:I suppose I could ask you this billhahn: considering the comparitively s
all number of people that have died from h1n1, why the national emergency?

Instead of questioning the motives of why some guy questions the president, just question the original source.

Do you honestly believe h1n1 has surpassed the regular flu in victims?

Lately, it seems, instead of discussing an issue, you seem to do little more than: "oh yeah...where'd you hear that from...who told you to say that?". And you seem to to think that if a conservative type mag or site brought it up... Then it is part of some plot....nevermind the facts at hand...focus on the motive for printing the facts

All forms of valid debate should be welcome. My form includes a willingness to characterize certain points as not worthy of debate. My opinions on this are at least as welcome as any other's input, and perhaps even more so to those who are just sick of this constant train of negativity coming out of these silly Partisan Wars. So, yes...I will question sources, and illustrate motives, for doing so calls into question certain extremely important aspects of credibility and validity. I think you will see my responses to be well thought out, backed by a considerable amount of experience, as well as documented and supported where needed.

I'm still waiting for someone to add that style of credibility and validity to this hysterical (yes, I did say that!) charge of H1N1 "health scare" conspiracy and coverup by stating WHY the government would try to perpetrate such a thing. Can you do so?

As to why I do believe H1N1 is a subject worthy of emergency status: It is a virulent form of influenza that the world is having a hard time staying ahead of. Thousands have indeed died to date. No matter HOW many people have or will die from it, the way we control such outbreaks is to hit them head on BEFORE many thousands die. If you need to see tens of thousands of Americans dead before you feel it is an emergency, well...I really think that's inconsiderate at best, largely stupid at worst. It's also just not how we deal with epidemics.

Bill Hahn Jr. wrote:I think you've taken umbrage at someone else being as verbose as you for a change! Sorry for that, but you've just provided such good opportunity these last couple of days...seems you've gone on RightOverload!

So you DO accuse this of being a...well, conspiracy with no other objective other than to...well, what is the objective again? To prove that some animals are more equal than others? Don't try to dazzle me with your knowledge on this years legislation...state the real rationale here. Don't think I'll be satisfied with some vague, imperious, sinister references. I want the real stuff.

Why are they doing it, and how are they making every medico go along with it, with nary a leak? This all doesn't seem highly improbable to you? It sure does to me...but seriously. State the alleged intention, and stay on point. Brevity, my man...

LOL. Oh, I wish I had the time to fully respond to this, but today, tomorrow, and Thursday are very busy days for me, with a lot of running around. As much as I enjoy it, debating here will have to wait. By the way, I didn't mention that I've read that much to "dazzle you". I said it so that you knew my information was from the source, not a second or third hand report by a source you deem biased. I also suggested you read as much as you could, because I believe first hand information is best. There is actually a thread somewhere from February or March where I posted a bunch of things that I had read in the bill, if you feel like going back through some older posts (maybe if you're up until 4:00am again. LOL. I would have stayed on longer, but I needed to get up early this morning)

First of all, read back to the beginning of the thread again. I didn't accuse them, I simply told what I heard from someone. I also said that I find it hard to believe, but that I wanted to look into it. I said that if there is truth to it, the combination of that and the declaration of a state of emergency is a problem.

ThatGuy85 wrote:An update on this. I talked to her and she actually DOES have the real H1N1. The doctor never mentioned anything about having to report all flu cases as the swine flu, so this is probably just a rumor.

It's not that the guy claimed to them actually diagnosing it as H1N1, the statement was that when someone is diagnosed with any flu virus, the hospital reports it to the CDC as an H1N1 case. On the surface, this is a pretty crazy accusation, but if it's true, the only purpose I can think of is to inflate the number of cases of the H1N1 virus reported by the CDC. There is already an example of the Whitehouse exaggerating the predictions of the outbreak back in July or August. The CDC released a report that had a statement deep in the document stating that if the virus mutated in a certain way, it is possible that we could have 90,000 deaths over the next year from H1N1 infections. What the Whitehouse reported was that the CDC report projected 90,000 deaths from the virus over the next year. The CDC even came out after the Whitehouse made the statement, and corrected it.

I don't mind that you've read a lot...my point about not wanting to be dazzled by it is that such info is largely irrelevant to my question, so I request that you avoid going out on the typical tangents.

Cliffs...Address and expound upon your accusation of conspiracy, fraud (your own word) and coverup, please.

Bill, what you haven't realized yet is that no matter what you say, he will always spin it to please his view. Hence why there are tangents and why there are continuous new posts to point out things over and over again that aren't perfect. Nothing is perfect, and every administration is the same. The hiding, the lying, the "odd" policies, every administration does it. There's no way around it, it's how the government works, and will always work.

There is no point in continuing to prove your opinion, because he will never walk away with a "different" point in his head. He's already programmed himself to spin every single thing into his view, and there's nothing you can do or say to change that. It's one of those things where you have to agree to disagree about yours, and he will just agree to his own.



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- Sold my beloved J in April 2010 -

Greedy Capitalist Pig wrote:

ThatGuy85 wrote:An update on this. I talked to her and she actually DOES have the real H1N1. The doctor never mentioned anything about having to report all flu cases as the swine flu, so this is probably just a rumor.

It's not that the guy claimed to them actually diagnosing it as H1N1, the statement was that when someone is diagnosed with any flu virus, the hospital reports it to the CDC as an H1N1 case. On the surface, this is a pretty crazy accusation, but if it's true, the only purpose I can think of is to inflate the number of cases of the H1N1 virus reported by the CDC. There is already an example of the Whitehouse exaggerating the predictions of the outbreak back in July or August. The CDC released a report that had a statement deep in the document stating that if the virus mutated in a certain way, it is possible that we could have 90,000 deaths over the next year from H1N1 infections. What the Whitehouse reported was that the CDC report projected 90,000 deaths from the virus over the next year. The CDC even came out after the Whitehouse made the statement, and corrected it.

Indeed that is a crazy accusation, which I'm not really buying in to. I'm not denying it's possibility, but if I were a doctor I would not risk my credibility on something like this..

Yes youre right, the common flu kills 30,000 a year but its mostly ederly people and people who were really sick already with a very poor immune system. Also when they die they dont die all together they die slowly.

H1N1 on the other hand is killing people faster than the common flu its killing not only the ederly and the sick but people with a normal/average immune systems, people who have nothing wrong with them.

The projected death toll by next year is going to be 60,000+

If this is not a good basis for a national emergency then I do not know what is. Im glad the gov't is taking steps towards preventing the next black plague. Everyone always wants to see a conspiracy about something, be happy your government is doing something and you dont live in a 3rd world country like one of my friends, they just let you die and dont do anything about it.

60,000? BS. They got that number by saying if a very specific set of circumstances fell into line, then you have the 60k mark.

Also, isn't it an emergency that "mostly elderly" are dying?

Also, why take the steps of getting official emergency status? How exactly will that help? No one I know even cares about H1N1. Sure does make a convenient bogeyman to distract from the n'er do wells on Capitol hill though


“Poor Al Gore. Global warming completely debunked via the very Internet you invented. Oh, oh, the irony!” -Jon Stewart

The ederly will die anyway when it starts to attack the future of the world then it becomes a problem, on the 60000 I dont call BS at all look at the current numbers

As my sister was just diagnosed with H1N1, and my daughter's been in close contact with her, I am going to recuse myself from further comment on this thread.

Time to watch I am Legend....


Chris




"An appeal to arms and the God of hosts is all that is left us. But we shall not fight our battle alone. There is a just God that presides over the destinies of nations. The battle sir, is not of the strong alone. Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it almighty God. I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death."

Speech at the Second Virginia Convention at St. John's Church in Richmond, Virginia (23 March 1775) Patrick Henry

Bill Hahn Jr. wrote:As my sister was just diagnosed with H1N1, and my daughter's been in close contact with her, I am going to recuse myself from further comment on this thread.

Bill I hope your sister makes a full recovery and your daughter is fine, I will keep them in prayer

Oh yeah and, the big difference is that the current swine influenza A (H1N1) virus is new and most of us don't have any immunity to it. That is why it so easily became a pandemic virus (with the ability to cause a global outbreak), because it could easily spread from person to person.

all i know is that this h1n1 business is starting to get me worried...

i was just told my cusin died because of this, and he was a healthy 30 year old man.

seems to me the government doing this is a good idea. do i want obama to have more power? no... but if it means saving lives than so beit.



I must confess... I feel like a monster!