1. my motor has got 130,xxx miles. and my brother says i should replace the valve springs and timing gears and chain, just to be on the safe side. but my step dad told me to take the head off and have it machined, because without machining it he said it wont be worth putting the cams in, that i wont notice it as much.. what do you guys think?

what should i replace?? should i machine the head??? and does anyone know how to install the cams?? or have any tips for timing or anything??? im 16.. so im alittle new to motors. i know alittle above average for my age.. but im not a grease monkey.. yet. lol. but i am proud to say that i have done all the work on my two cavaliers. except for the exhaust since i cant weld. but thats off topic...

can anyone help!!?!?!?!

Dang Matt, I thought we went over this once(lol). Your dad is right, a rebuilt head is better than just replacing a few things on your head. Check to see if you can get one aftermarket. Hold up, is there something wrong with your engine? If not I'd just go as far as changing the timing chain and all that goes with it. Stock cams I hope. With the new chain the engine could go to 300K . There were people here with 220k and a stock chain.




04 Cav auto
95 Beretta auto

well theres a ticking comeing from the retainers, i found some for $4 each. i need 16 right? and i found brand new valve springs for $4 as well i need 16 of those to right? and i need valve seats right? where can i get those..?? and i dont really want to machine the head.. it sounded expensive. is it? and what kind of gain would that give me if i did machine it? with stage two cams i have to replace valve springs, valve retainers, seats and timing chain? or should i just get a whole new timing kit??

When you buy a timing kit(I think you can only buy a complete kit), all you get is the timing parts. Chains, cam gears, guides and maybe new tensioners.

As far as machining the head, don't. On dohc engines, you change the actual timing when you machine the head. If I were putting in stage 2 cams, I would save up and buy performance parts for the rest of the valve train(springs, seats, valves, etc).

Matt I'm not a big fan of putting bigger cams on an engine with 100k. If the compression is not high enough there is little point in doing it. Stage2 cams would like to have some porting done to the head so they can do their best. As I said before, the ported head with all new everything and springs to take the higher lift would cost around 1,300 bucks(a stage 2 head that is). Here is a good head for that http://www.competitionproducts.com/products.asp?dept=833&pagenumber=2&sort_on=&sort_by=




04 Cav auto
95 Beretta auto

Thats the head I would buy if I were going to do all that stuff.

However it has been said that around 100,000 miles the timing chain begins to stretch and runs the risk of snapping. If I were the OP, I would just slap in a new timing set and call it a day.

That Patriot head has a $300ish valvetrain in it, the cheapest quality valvesprings cost more than that. Plus a good CNC port job will flow more air than it. There are better options out there(M2race.com is one).


With 130k+ your factory springs are already pretty worn and tossing higher lift cams will wear them out faster. Aftermarket cams produce more lift than the stock springs can handle, even Comps Stage 1s.



Tinkles

2003 Cavalier 1SV
Bagged and Blown

im saving up. and getting that cnc ported stage 2 patriot head, new timing kit, and stage 2 comp cams. then im getting it hp tuned. im hoping to be at like 230-250 horsepower. cant wait!!!

matt lyle wrote: im hoping to be at like 230-250 horsepower. cant wait!!!

N/A? lol. That is not going to happen unless it sees positive cylinder pressures.



Tinkles

2003 Cavalier 1SV
Bagged and Blown

?? so what do you guess im pushing?? ive got an aem cai. poly motor mounts. tranny mounts. stage 2 clutch kit. pacesetter header 2.5 exhaust all the way back to 2.5 high flow cat. 2.5 glass pack. and two FOUR inch tips. short throw shifter. and then im getting the stage 2 head ( ported and polished, over sized valves, titanium retainers springs and valves, comp cams. new timing kit. and hp tunned) what do you think ill have, just fyi. i smoked a civic si with full mugen exhaust and cai.. and he was pushing 208 atleast. and i was right next to my brothers 92 mustang lx. and theyve got 225 stock! so what do you think im pushing? and what do you guess il have when i get the head and tune??

160-180 hp at the wheels, maybe. total random guess but its prob not far off. its not always about horsepower.


Do your mods, and go get dyno'ed. Thats the only way to tell. It's hard to get 250 hp N/A on these engines.

If you want that kind of power you'll need boost or spray.

matt lyle wrote:?? so what do you guess im pushing?? ive got an aem cai. poly motor mounts. tranny mounts. stage 2 clutch kit. pacesetter header 2.5 exhaust all the way back to 2.5 high flow cat. 2.5 glass pack. and two FOUR inch tips. short throw shifter. and then im getting the stage 2 head ( ported and polished, over sized valves, titanium retainers springs and valves, comp cams. new timing kit. and hp tunned) what do you think ill have, just fyi. i smoked a civic si with full mugen exhaust and cai.. and he was pushing 208 atleast. and i was right next to my brothers 92 mustang lx. and theyve got 225 stock! so what do you think im pushing? and what do you guess il have when i get the head and tune??

The size of your tips doesnt matter. PJ(Daflyingskwirl) only made about 180ish whp before he tore the Skwirl down for the hybrid engine build. Ben Wenzel Jr. is the only N/A eco that i know of that is over 200whp and he has alot of crazy custom @!#$ on it.

You have to remember that the 140hp is what the engine is rated at the crank. Your whp is around 120-130ish(stock) depending on your transmisson. You might be around 130-140whp, maybe 150whp. Again depending on if you have an auto or 5-speed. Im assume 5-speed from the unneeded stage 2 clutch. Why is it unneeded? Most of the S/C guys(including myself) and a bunch of turbo guys have no problem with the stocker holding the added power. Im not nice to the clutch either, it does get abused.



Tinkles

2003 Cavalier 1SV
Bagged and Blown

my clutch was going out anyway, so i bought a racing stage 2 clutch. my exhaust is custom, i know the tips dont add hp. but i didnt want anyone thinking i have dual fart cans either, after i got the exhaust done. she ran like a champ, idk anyone whos got the same exhaust set up i do on the 2.2? im sure SOMEONE has. but i havnt heard of them, i just figured the car reacted well with the new set up. b/c i read the story on the gm 1000hp eco. and they started out with a cai and cut the exhaust off and they stated that they were pushing 180hp. and my exhaust is basicly as open as it can be without cutting it off. once i get it dynoed later this year. ill let everyone know.

matt lyle wrote: b/c i read the story on the gm 1000hp eco. and they started out with a cai and cut the exhaust off and they stated that they were pushing 180hp.

That was done on a engine dyno not a chassis dyno, the engine was not in a car.



Tinkles

2003 Cavalier 1SV
Bagged and Blown

whats the difference? idk the difference.

Chassis dyno is what you dyno the car on. An engine dyno is what you dyno just the engine on(it is not in a car).



Tinkles

2003 Cavalier 1SV
Bagged and Blown

well i got that.. but it really changes the horsepower rating??? i thought it would tell you the same if it was in the car or not?

No there is always a percentage loss threw the drivetrain. Autos will have a higher percentage loss than manuals too.

Stiffer engine/tranny mounts will reduce the loss alittle, but it is impossible to so away with it completely.



Tinkles

2003 Cavalier 1SV
Bagged and Blown