while i was at nationals this weekend i saw an ecotec with the saab head on it. i was just wondering what all has to be done to fit the saab head on the block with the cavi ecotec parts? someone said a valve job but thats about all i heard. if anyone else has any more info on this please let me know. thank you.
as far as the research I've done has shown the Saab ecotec head is the same as the LSJ ecotec head
"Racing is life Everything else is just waiting"
Phil
Philip Rodda wrote:as far as the research I've done has shown the Saab ecotec head is the same as the LSJ ecotec head
Yup it's the same motor.
What car did you see it on?
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Umm, what ECO are you guys talking about? 'Cause isnt the Saab ECO a 2.0 and the Cavy/Sunfire ECO a 2.2? And which one is the LSJ? (I swear, I'm not retarded.. I'm just used to the LD9. Just did an ECO swap, so bare wit me.)
R.I.P. JessE Gerard 7.11.87 - 1.25.08
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Evan Stryker wrote:Umm, what ECO are you guys talking about? 'Cause isnt the Saab ECO a 2.0 and the Cavy/Sunfire ECO a 2.2? And which one is the LSJ? (I swear, I'm not retarded.. I'm just used to the LD9. Just did an ECO swap, so bare wit me.)
The 2.0 and 2.2 engines have the same geometry to bolt it onto the cylinder head. The Saab 2.0 engine is an ECOTEC but not an LSJ. It has a different compression ratio than the LSJ, comes stock turbocharged with a Mitsubishi TD04 turbo and has a different engine code (I can't remember at this moment).
Now, the 2.0 I'm referring to is in the 2003+ Saab 9-3 L.O. or H.O.
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Yea, I knew the specs on the Saab motor, I just wasnt sure of the engine code and which block you guys were sayin it bolts to.. 'cause there's like, 985769567 different ECOtecs out now. Or at least the engine bays all look different. Is the Saab head better, as in, stronger internals or more freeflowing?
R.I.P. JessE Gerard 7.11.87 - 1.25.08
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Evan Stryker wrote:Yea, I knew the specs on the Saab motor, I just wasnt sure of the engine code and which block you guys were sayin it bolts to.. 'cause there's like, 985769567 different ECOtecs out now. Or at least the engine bays all look different. Is the Saab head better, as in, stronger internals or more freeflowing?
I'll give you a quit run down...
2.2 ECOTEC - L61 - 10.0:1 Compression - Found in 02+ Cavalier, 02+ Sunfires, 03+ Ions, 05+ HHRs, 05+ Cobalts, 02 or 03+ Aleros, 02 or 03+ Grand Ams
2.0 ECOTEC - LSJ - 9.5:1 Compression - Cobalt SS/SC, Ion Redline
2.0 VVT ECOTEC (Direct Injection) - LNF - 9.2:1 Compression - Saturn Sky Redline, Pontiac Solstice GXP
2.4 VVT ECOTEC - LE5 - 10.5:1 Compression - Found in HHRs, Cobalt SS, Solstice, Sky, Ions (can't remember all the models).
2.0 ECOTEC - Can't remember the Code - Found in the Saab 9-3 2003+
That's basically it.
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Correction on my statement before...the LSJ and Saab engine have the same 9.5:1 compression.
The Engine code is LK9 by the way.
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Ok, I have the L61. I just swapped it into my 98 with the full intention of going turbo. Now, I already have a turbo (a small-ass 13C from an older Volvo). I still need the obvious parts, but I'm still in the research stages also. I'm looking to find a better head (rather than building one) 'cause I'd like have a J that can rev higher than 6400 rpm's without destroying itself (I am fully aware of the 6400 rpm rev limiter, btw). I'm not terribly interested in the turbo it already has, I'm just interested in the specs, as far as what it has for internals, how high they can rev, if its more freeflowing than the one I already have, etc.
R.I.P. JessE Gerard 7.11.87 - 1.25.08
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Evan Stryker wrote:Ok, I have the L61. I just swapped it into my 98 with the full intention of going turbo. Now, I already have a turbo (a small-ass 13C from an older Volvo). I still need the obvious parts, but I'm still in the research stages also. I'm looking to find a better head (rather than building one) 'cause I'd like have a J that can rev higher than 6400 rpm's without destroying itself (I am fully aware of the 6400 rpm rev limiter, btw). I'm not terribly interested in the turbo it already has, I'm just interested in the specs, as far as what it has for internals, how high they can rev, if its more freeflowing than the one I already have, etc.
The thing about turbos isn't really about how high they can "rev" because your internal wastegate controls it's speeds. Using an boost controller delays the actuator signal to make it have a faster rotate speed but thats another topic.
As far as your turbocharger, do you know what kind of flange it has? This is important cause you need to match it up with a manifold that fits your engine as well as has the same flange type to bolt the turbo to it...if the flanges aren't the same, you can't bolt it up, you can't use it...waste of time.
As far as the cylinder head, you're not going to find a stock head that will be able to handle super high revs. 6400 RPMs isn't that bad and won't cause damage (and valve float to an extreme) as long as you're not staying at that RPM for the most part. Look into Patriot Performance, they have a fully ported and upgraded cylinder head...a bit pricey but well worth the money.
The problem with using small turbos and stock turbos is that they run out of their efficiency range very quickly, they don't compress much air and they typically only flow enough to help you on the lower RPMs of your powerband...hence...won't create much power for you in the long run. If you try to push them past their efficiency with say a boost controller, you'll start creating more heat than power (hence running past its efficiency point). This is why I suggest looking aftermarket and matching a turbocharger that can support most of your powerband rather than a small portion of it. Compressor Maps are your friend.
If you have more questions, feel free to ask privately or you can reach me on the forum in my signature.
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My turbo has a 4-bolt, rectangular shaped flange. I believe its good for about 14lbs or so, which is smaller than what I'm lookin to run. I was lookin for around 16 to 18lbs. I'm aimin for low 12's, high 11's maybe, and I've heard of a few guys doin it with a stock block and head.. just FMU, and injectors is what they had. And as far as a high revver, I was already under the impression that any stock head I found was at its limit, but Patriot is just a lil outta my price range, at least anytime soon. I've just always been jealous of my friend's Hondas and bein able to rev up to 9k and not break anything. Now, whether they make power up there or not, I dont think so
And about the manifold, I always see the same one on eBay, and I do believe it'll fit my current turbo. However, I think I'll be lookin to get a Big 16 after too long...
R.I.P. JessE Gerard 7.11.87 - 1.25.08
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Evan Stryker wrote:My turbo has a 4-bolt, rectangular shaped flange. I believe its good for about 14lbs or so, which is smaller than what I'm lookin to run. I was lookin for around 16 to 18lbs. I'm aimin for low 12's, high 11's maybe, and I've heard of a few guys doin it with a stock block and head.. just FMU, and injectors is what they had. And as far as a high revver, I was already under the impression that any stock head I found was at its limit, but Patriot is just a lil outta my price range, at least anytime soon. I've just always been jealous of my friend's Hondas and bein able to rev up to 9k and not break anything. Now, whether they make power up there or not, I dont think so And about the manifold, I always see the same one on eBay, and I do believe it'll fit my current turbo. However, I think I'll be lookin to get a Big 16 after too long...
Understand that PSI means squat, it's the CFM of airflow being created per PSI. PSI is a measurement of pressure. That small turbocharger, if you put it on your car successfully will not support your car to run that fast of times. You need a stronger and higher amount of airflow.
Some people might be running 12s on a stock engine but they have a different turbocharger that is more suitable.
High Revving isn't important honestly. If you know what you're doing forced induction wise, you can have whatever amount of power you want within the stock limiter.
Are you referring to the 16G?
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Yea, I already knew that the turbo I have now isnt enough to fill my needs but it should be enough to get me rolling. And when I said that I wanna run 12's on a stock motor, I moreover was referring to running boost on a stock motor without breaking it. Gettin in the 12's is just my main goal in general, whether it can be done on a stock motor or not.
R.I.P. JessE Gerard 7.11.87 - 1.25.08
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Evan Stryker wrote:Yea, I already knew that the turbo I have now isnt enough to fill my needs but it should be enough to get me rolling. And when I said that I wanna run 12's on a stock motor, I moreover was referring to running boost on a stock motor without breaking it. Gettin in the 12's is just my main goal in general, whether it can be done on a stock motor or not.
Yeah, you're gonna need another Turbocharger then. Super 16G should do it.
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so it will work on a 2003 cavi with no problems? just making sure im curious myself and would the payoff of that turbo be worth the effort? thanks
david cotten wrote:so it will work on a 2003 cavi with no problems? just making sure im curious myself and would the payoff of that turbo be worth the effort? thanks
I'll find out for sure and get back to you
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