Ok, I am starting this thread for discussion of what people belive on the ecotec to provide the most gain for the least amount of cash. now, the obvious answer is boost, however, i am going to ask something a little differant this time.
If you had under 1k US dollars to spend, what mods would you get on a l61 if you already had a intake?
I have a wife and kid, so I dont have the money needed for a turbo or supercharger, unless i make my own turbo kit, addapted from a stock saab....but, i dont have the time for it sadly. I am wondering what combination of "little mods" are available for the 2.2l ecotec that produce reasonable amounts of horsepower, without having to run premium fuel, and dont ruin drivability. I am thinking opening up the factory exhaust would be one way, and perhaps if someone has started making stage 1 cams that dont trip the ECU, and maybe a TB at some point. the exhuast would be almost free as i have partial sponsorship through a local shop, and i think stage I cams and a TB would put me right at my spending limit.
please, discuss
providing you already have an intake I would focus on the exhaust next followed by perhaps some cams this will get you good usable power accross the board and wont be a constant drain on the budget like a chemical power adder(nitros)
"Racing is life Everything else is just waiting"
Phil
^^ sounds like a good base to start with..
what cams are available now that arent going to cause major problems with the ecu?
also, for a engine with minor bolt ons, has anyone yet determined a adequate size of exhaust? im assuming with cams,TB,intake and maybe a few other minor things, 2.5" exhaust with a high flow cat would be either just enough or slightly overkill? any thoughts on that?
also, if anyone can get me some company names for cams that dont trip trouble codes, it would be great!
Spades wrote:what cams are available now that arent going to cause major problems with the ecu?
also, for a engine with minor bolt ons, has anyone yet determined a adequate size of exhaust? im assuming with cams,TB,intake and maybe a few other minor things, 2.5" exhaust with a high flow cat would be either just enough or slightly overkill? any thoughts on that?
also, if anyone can get me some company names for cams that dont trip trouble codes, it would be great!
As far as camshafts go, you can get the JBP Stage 1 camshafts that are ECU friendly, Crane has a set and Comp Cams has a set as well.
As far as the TB, 2 1/2" exhaust system...I have them and I would say hold off on it. Putting a bigger TB will move your powerband upwards and take away from your low end of power and the 2 1/2" will do basically the same thing. The reason they do this is because it's losing velocity on the intake and exhaust side which will gain you power, yes, but the lose of power might hurt you as well.
As far as the question "best bang for your buck", going from personal experience, you don't want to just start buying random parts because that's what everyone does or because they are cheap or because of some other lame reason. You should buy parts according to your goals....that's right...you should have a goal, a power goal. How much power are you looking to make out of your vehicle? When you can figure this question, you can start to ask yourself other questions like:
- Can I afford to reach my goal?
- How much money will it take to reach my goal?
- Is my goal reasonable to reach?
- Will I have the help to reach that goal or can I do this by myself?
- Is my car worth investing this much money into?
If you can do this first hand, this will save you alot of headache and confussion down the line. If you do answer these questions logically and you need help reaching your goal or learning how to reach your goal, we can help you from there better. Untill then, telling you buy X part might make you have money coming out of your pocket unnecessarily.
www.kronosperformance.com / 732-742-8837
thanks for the help NJHK,powergoal has always been in the 175ish range for me, regardless of if it was boosted or all motor. i dont want alot, just a little bit of gain over stock. i wont really loose power over all, just redistribute it,as you mentioned, bigger exhaust and TB for more topend, sacrifice the bottom power band.
anyway, whats your thoughts? cheapest way to make an extra 30hp? im assuming with Borla muffler and new resonater and intake im somewhere around 145 of the crank, i DOUBT those mods could get you more than 5hp even though everyone claims 20hp gains with them,lol.
so, cams at stage one im prolly only looking at 10 more hp, maybe if i add exhaust and TB to the mix maybe 160hp off the crank for grand total?
and sadly, cheap is a big thing for me, cause i have a wife and kid and no cash,lol.
hrm, maybe refinance my loan and get a GM supercharger? heh...wouldnt that be nice
Spades wrote:thanks for the help NJHK,powergoal has always been in the 175ish range for me, regardless of if it was boosted or all motor. i dont want alot, just a little bit of gain over stock. i wont really loose power over all, just redistribute it,as you mentioned, bigger exhaust and TB for more topend, sacrifice the bottom power band.
anyway, whats your thoughts? cheapest way to make an extra 30hp? im assuming with Borla muffler and new resonater and intake im somewhere around 145 of the crank, i DOUBT those mods could get you more than 5hp even though everyone claims 20hp gains with them,lol.
so, cams at stage one im prolly only looking at 10 more hp, maybe if i add exhaust and TB to the mix maybe 160hp off the crank for grand total?
and sadly, cheap is a big thing for me, cause i have a wife and kid and no cash,lol.
hrm, maybe refinance my loan and get a GM supercharger? heh...wouldnt that be nice
Almost everything you do is going to try and take away your low end power...the problem is that we are designed to have a low RPM band and a lower powerband than most imports, so these modifications that are trying to gear torwards higher RPMs...we don't have the RPMs to use them.
As far as reaching 170 crank...not sure how you'll even be able to tell if you're reaching that. What matters is wheel horsepower, not crank.
I wouldn't attempt the refinance for the GM charger...I tried that and they tried dicking me over with a $1000 down payment and $330 a month for 5 years ON A 2 YEAR OLD CAR! So yeah, scratch that idea buddy.
Just save your cash if you really want boost.
www.kronosperformance.com / 732-742-8837
I think the rule of thumb as far as exhaust and T/B are concerned is be conservative. too big and the engine will fall on its face but too small and there will be no power availible. I would say stock T/B for the street unless you have a huge set of cams and a standalone ecu. Now exhaust the stock is ok for most N/A applications with a couple changes tehy are: remove the center muffler/resonator and change the rear muffler to a free flowing type (your choice).
the stock airbox can be used for good power as well (if you like a quiet engine) there are a few mods that can be done to improve the breathing of the airbox.
1. K&N drop in filter
2. gut all loose pipes and hoses inside the box
3. add a 3inch airfeed from the front of the car to the airbox
this is a common set of mods in Europe for this very engine with great results.
some of these cars have dynoes at 170+bhp
"Racing is life Everything else is just waiting"
Phil
Also, adding a larger TB, and throwing in a set of cams will give you MINOR gains. It is the "straw" effect. The insides of our heads are a mess "not sure if you have ported your own heads". I have ported almost every motor I have ever owned, and the ECOtec, is far non the WORST. Despite the extremely tight corners, and factor "hang nails", the inside is filled with bumps and ridges. You will see an EZ gain of 10-15hp with a nice porting. Then you will see the other mods really effect the wheels. 170 is a easy goal to achieve. Try this out. Anyone can correct me if i am wrong. Although I have about 2500$ in my car as of now, and I am running 13's.
This will depend on your skill and workmanship. This is a DIY list.
Larger TB. (I am using a 72mm off a LS1) wouldn't recommend it though.
Buy a JYD head for 25-50$ and port the hell outta it. I don't have volume #s, Just keep it even, and go SLOW.
Cams, LevelZero offers nice ones, Turbotechracing as well. The JYD head should come with cams, use those as core.
Header, 4-2-1 would be the Tsunami, 150$ on eBay. or Pacesetter's 4-1 design, same price.
Stock exhaust with a high flow cat, and flow through muffler/s
Crank pulley
motor mounts.
Should put you over your goal 180+ range.
Oh yeah, if you have a little money left over, a Apexi SAFC2 is very nice....after you have the low fuel/high fuel codes changed about 10 times. If you do everything on here, I will email you the correct settings to use, so you have optimal settings with NO codes.
If you are not familiar with porting, there is a BEAUTIFUL DIY guide by standard abrasive. just key-search standardabrassive. It should pop up. Buy the master kit if this is your first time. Dremmel works fine. As long as it is variable speeds. 16000-20000 is fast enough. OH, AND USE A MASK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. You might not see the metal, but when you cough blood you will definitely went over your spending limit. (Dr costs).
