For reasons of reliability I'm forced to get a new car and have narrowed it down to a few choices. Sunfire, Ion, Focus, and Civic. I know everyone here is going to be more for the first 2, but could you give me some reasons as to why. I love american cars as i have an 87 firebird and 67 camaro, so this new car is gonna be left completely stock. As far as comfort, speed, and just overall fun goes, what are ure opinions?

Stock? What's that?

I say Sunfire. Nice engine. Decent options available. Easy to work on if need be.

Only downside is the interior... did they fix that in 04?
<br>

yes they did! The interior looks <b>MUUUUUCH</b> better. I've thought about swappin in a 04 backseat, but it'd probubly be cheaper to just re-upholster.....

and who keeps a car stock??? honestly???

<br>

<img src="http://www.j-body.org/registry/pokitrokit2000/elguapo3.jpg">

check out these pics:
<img src="http://images.cardomain.com/member_images/3/web/435000-435999/435900_8_full.jpg">
and
<img src="http://images.cardomain.com/member_images/3/web/435000-435999/435900_9_full.jpg">

better than the ugly @!#$ "Safari theme" of the 03s. BOO!

and are the chairs diffrent too or is it just me cuz I forget what the stock seats looked like
<b>BUT</b> I remember them being alot Flatter.....
<br>

<img src="http://www.j-body.org/registry/pokitrokit2000/elguapo3.jpg">

Nah, I gaurantee those are the same seats... you were just blinded by the ugliness of the material

And yeah, much cheaper and easier to get new material on them than it would be to get new backseat parts...
<br>

i have an ION and i love it... i would say the ION or the sunfire because the ecotec has more power then most civics (not the Si) and the engine is very reliable (although the honda is prolly pretty reliable too). if you want a lighter sport compact go with the sunfire but if you want a sport compact with alittle more room get the ION.

my mom has a 2003 civic 5spd with the 127 hp engine (i think its 127), but my ion has much more room in it then the civic and i can beat it no problem.

so to answer your question i would go with the ion just because personally i will never get another poniac. i had a 98 bonneville with about 60k on it. it was in the shop for about 2 weeks and put about 1500 to fix head gasket and a couple other things and about 2 weeks later the block cracked and the bonny was dead.

oh and personally i think that they definetly need to change the dash and radio area of the pontiacs... seeing that picture above, the radio and everything it looks like the same stuff ive seen for 10 years

El Guapo wrote:check out these pics:
<img src="http://images.cardomain.com/member_images/3/web/435000-435999/435900_8_full.jpg">
and
<img src="http://images.cardomain.com/member_images/3/web/435000-435999/435900_9_full.jpg">

better than the ugly @!#$ "Safari theme" of the 03s. BOO!

and are the chairs diffrent too or is it just me cuz I forget what the stock seats looked like
<b>BUT</b> I remember them being alot Flatter.....

those are the air bag front seats

<br>

I know that you posted your question 2 months ago, but if you still have not bought a car, then I am not too late. I bought a Saturn Ion 4 door manual trans. 12 months ago. I got about what I expected. You see, I have not been a fan of GM, at least not of anything they made in the last 35 years. And my Ion is no exception. The Ecotec engine that everyone else here seems to think is a revelation is bland and gets the job done only adequately. It is not an enthusiast's package. The engine is ill-suited to a manual transmission as the throttle hangs open during shifts. It also is not that responsive as it revs up. Besides the lackluster thottle response, it simply does not breath well. The da*# thing redlines at 6 or 6 & a half, but I always have to shift at 5 or so because it runs out of steam up there. Maybe this can be minimized by simple intake and exhaust breathing fixes, but I have not yet done any. The tachometer and speedometer have some sort of delay built into them, as if the needles are fighting their way through some thick oil. It also seems that all new Ions have what feels like warped rotors from the factory as 4 out of 4 that I test drove fluttered if I got heavy into the brakes at speed. The suspension too leaves a lot to be desired. And as I had heard my entire life, GM builds cars that squeek and rattle as they go down the road. Mine developes a new one every couple of months. On '03's the electric assist steering has terrible on-center feel, although I hear that has been addressed in the '04's. So why did I buy it? 1. Price- mine was offered with $2000 rebate + $1000 GM credit card rebate + $750 college grad discount. 2. Plastic doors and fenders won't ding or rust (hood, trunk, and roof still made from steel). 3. GMAC financing accepts EVERYONE, I didn't even have a job. Once I am in better financial shape, I will be stepping up to a Neon SRT, or Toyota Prius. Neon is fast and the Prius gets 50 mpg while still being faster than my Ion. My family has bought only Jap cars for the last 25 years, and now I see why. The level of technical performance/refinement in my '03 Ion does not match that of my mother's '93 Nissan Altima. 10 years later, and the latest and greatest from the mighty GM still lags far behind the Japs.

russell halfar wrote:Once I am in better financial shape, I will be stepping up to a Neon SRT, or Toyota Prius. Neon is fast and the Prius gets 50 mpg while still being faster than my Ion.

Do you honestly think that a Prius is faster than your Ion?! Did you get an AUTO ION?

If you was getting an Ion, you should've waited for the SuperCharged Ion Redline....

<br>

<img src="http://www.j-body.org/registry/pokitrokit2000/elguapo3.jpg">

You are right. My Ion is quicker than a Prius. The only place I could find that had both cars tested was Edmunds.com. A CVT Prius does 0-60 in 10.4 and 1/4 in 17.7. 5 Spd auto Ion does 0-60 in 9.9 and 1/4 in 17.4. I really would like to find the numbers for the CVT Ion coupe so that we could compare apples with apples. Anyhow, I have an Ion 4 door with the manual tranny and I think Its slow. If I want a fast small car, the Neon SRT is tough to beat - 0-60 around 5.5. Although I am dissappointed to find out how slow the Prius truly is, its appeal goes beyond quick acceleration. When gas prices approach $3 this summer, I think that the Prius will be even more attractive. Either that or my 2.7 sec 0-60 Honda that gets 45 mpg.

I can tell you guys that the '04 ION has improved steering for sure. I have driven a couple '03 IONs and I noted the on-center feel like you were saying, but my '04 doesn't have that feel to it. Also, I find the ION to be a nice smooth ride. Also, to take note that once the ION finally breaks in at around 4,000 KMs or so you'll notice better response and better fuel consumption as well. I am satisfied with my ION and I am sad to know your not with yours. Anyways good luck with whatever you decide.

SUNFIRE!! All the way, why would you want a civic... jeez... and i cant even believe you were considering a ford fuckus. lol sorry i have a big grudge against ford and everyone knows ford is known as Found On Road Dead. lol. <br>


Black 2005 Sunfire 5-Speed.....

No Mods Yet

For the price nothing beats the sunfire; reliable, not ugly, good on gas, and decently powerful engine.

that last post could be made about the ION as well.

Get a new cavalier...they are the same things as the sunfire but they are'nt as much a chick car..as we all know they are much faster than neons and focuses..The automatic cavaliers do 0-60 in 8.2 sec. which is faster than an ion with a stick. Great Power to wieght ratio...all around good car

sorry the seats in the sunfires and cavalier SUCK for support when turning..its like siting on a board and sliding around..i am going to buy a racing seat from summit for sure!

I think the seats really depend on what trim level you get. I know that the only difference is really just the clothe but it seems to be a BIG difference when it comes to comfort. I have owned a cavalier with both styles of cloth and the base model seats are really uncomfortable and seem to be stiffer than the "sport seats". All the cars that you listed are really all good cars with the exception of the honda(my opinion) and you will satisfied with them in stock form. You should really think about the Prius. It may be more expensive but you will make up the difference with fuel economy.

If i had to choose between a 04 sunfire, or a 04 civic SI......



civic all the way.... Theyre just built alot better..... .



Might take the civic, and drop a Ecotec in it tho.. hahahahha <br>

2004 Cavalier ~ 15.98 - Stock

Here is what i think

1. the civic has the best reliability but the 1.7L aint enough.

2. FOCUS? What tha hell wuz you thinkin you wont get no where in a focus.

3. sunfire i think the sunfire has an ulgy interior weather its an 03, 04 or 05 and the headlamps are not tha best looking either.

4. ION i say you should get the ION i think the ion is good looking i like the coupe (got one) but the 03-04 sedan has an ulgy face i think the 05 sedan looks better. and the best thing about the ION is the repair rates are very low.

i agree

I say either the sunfire or the ION.
Of those two, if your looking for more aftermarket in the short term, go with the sunfire. They are a bit lighter than the ION's and so they are a bit quicker stock, and have more available for them at the curent moment in time. If you want better ride and handling, go with the ION. The aftermarket isn't huge for us yet, however once the cobalt's aftermarket grows, so will the ION's since they share the same underpinnings.

I have an ION, and I love it. If you want to ask any questions about it, I'll be more than happy to help. If you want to ask about the sunfire, I'm sure there are many on here that will answer any questions you have.

Russell,
If you hate GM car`s so much, then why did you buy one??, And as far as the problem `s your having, Did you have the time to have your dealer check it out for you?
Oh, and as far as your Neon rt , or what ever they call it is concerned, don`t bother. I have kept right up to them in my Cavalier. And mine doesn`t sqeek & rattle either. Sound`s like you had a prejudice opinion of them, before you even walked in the dealership. <br>

Sapporo