Hello everyone, I am an old school rod guy just now getting into the entire tuner world. I did decide on sticking with the good old USA for a ride and the Saturn ION was what I ended up with. No it's not the 2.0 SC version. It is as plain a jane as you can get with a stock but zippy 140 HP 2.2 Ecotec engine with an auto trans. I'm trying to get to 200 HP NA. I figure with the following Mods I can get cose to the 200 HP range without totally killing the budget. But I also have a few questions for anyone who can help point me in the right direction.

1. First is the computer chip. I've read that sometimes, but certainly not always, you can change a car's performance by changing the ROM chip in the engine control unit (ECU). You usually buy these chips from aftermarket performance dealers. I'm not to sure about contemplating this, because some chips are all hype and no performance. Is this a mod worth doing? Or does the 05 Saturn ION's Prom allow such a change? If so, where can I get a good chip?

2. Let air come in more easily using a polished short ram air intake, with a K&N cone style air filter at the end. I am going with a SAI instead of a CAI because of the fear of getting water sucked into the engine. I have friends who've been there and it's just not worth the risk for the amount of gains you get.

3. Let exhaust exit more easily - I found a set of headers from Monza that are supposed to be a direct bolt up. I also found the entire exhaust system from the same company with the exception of the CAT. Monza is a very good company (a tad pricey) with a good rep. Has anyone heard or used this system?

4. Will changing the heads and cams demand the need for reflashing? Or is this something to stay away from? Should I just go with a port and polish job and leave it at that?

5. Turbonator or Tornado air systems - Is this a waiste of time and money or is it worth the 2- 5HP gains they claim?

6. Increase the compression ratio ? Reflash needed? (I'm sure, but I had to ask)

7. Increase displacement - More displacement means more power because you can burn more gas during each revolution of the engine. So is increasing displacement by making the cylinders bigger and using larger pistons a sound choice? Or is this an old rodder trick that should not be used for a tuner car?

9. Upgrade the suspension (shocks/Struts/Springs, etc.) My question here is can the 05 ION rear drums be swaped for the redline rear disc set up? If not is the a rear disc brake conversin out there for this ride?

8. If all else failed with the NA HP gain tryout, Will a Turbo/Supercharger and Intercoolers work? I found a turbo kit for the 05 ION for about 3K and change. This would put me well over the 200 HP range. My questions are, Is the kit worth the 3k and change for the HP gained? The ECU will need to be reflashed with this kit. Is it problematic? Will it blow up my engineor ECU?

10. Oh BTW nitrous will not be an option.

Any and all help will be appreciated. Thanks.

ED



It's not how fast you go...But how you go fast.

no chip and wet nitrous is always good......

Quote:

1. First is the computer chip. I've read that sometimes, but certainly not always, you can change a car's performance by changing the ROM chip in the engine control unit (ECU). You usually buy these chips from aftermarket performance dealers. I'm not to sure about contemplating this, because some chips are all hype and no performance. Is this a mod worth doing? Or does the 05 Saturn ION's Prom allow such a change? If so, where can I get a good chip?

That's only for OBDI computers. OBDII computers use a EEPROM. You wouldn't be able to "chip" a OBDII computer unless you're adding a chip physically to the motherboard but that's something totally different and more extensive.

With a OBDII computer, you can use a Piggyback Unit (look into O2 sensor clamping) or a actual programmer but there is none for your application as of yet.

Quote:

7. Increase displacement - More displacement means more power because you can burn more gas during each revolution of the engine. So is increasing displacement by making the cylinders bigger and using larger pistons a sound choice? Or is this an old rodder trick that should not be used for a tuner car?

There have been talks in hybrids or doing hybrids with the 2.4 (LE5) motor. Go on ecotecforum.com in the Hybrid Section.


www.kronosperformance.com / 732-742-8837

Thanks guys...

George, nitrous won't be an option.

Unlike my other rods, this will not be a track car, but the toy I drive daily.

Adam, I have been reading the topics in this forum for quite some time before I decided to post my Q's for my first ever tuner ride. You do seem to have a vast knowledge of the game. (OK enough kissing Up...LOL!)

My goal is 200 HP. I think this is a nice upgrade to the stock 140HP.
I know about the INJEN CAI, the Monza Headers and a cat back exhaust system. What else can you suggest I do to get to that goal?

Since there is no chip for the ride or piggy back, I am going to assume that reflashing is a - expensive and b - not worth it for this amount of HP increase.
Do you agree?

Have you ever heard of or know if there is a rear disc brake conversion for the 05 ION?

What shocks/struts, springs would you suggest?

Any help with this will be greatly appreciated.


It's not how fast you go...But how you go fast.

You can use a piggyback.

Do you plan on staying n/a or going forced induction?

There is currently no company that offers a PCM Programmer to reflash you computer.

Don't know about any rear disc conversions, sorry.

Most guys do a SS/SC / Ion Redline Suspension swap, you can get them cheap.

You might want to check out www.ecotecforum.com for more info and things to read

Thanks for the compliment.


www.kronosperformance.com / 732-742-8837

skunk 2 spring set, and the factory strut and shock valving is real good, koni does make a set up for us but need to send your struts and shocks for them to make, they do not have the bodies. also the port and polish a waist, also cams not worth the time and trouble, do cam gears with head work like bates engineering valves, double springs and titanium retainers with locks. all can be done bye any shop in less than a week and will let it rev to 9,000 rpm safe. and set cam gears -2 rtd exhaust and intake plus 4 adv. also saturn motor sport throttle body and plasma ignition booster and iridium spark springs and plugs, and a ground kit, name brand no ebay junk will really bring it to life. the exhaust 2 1/4 with header and high flow cat, and magna flow muffler, and short ram intake. and you will be set that will put you real close to your goal, also if you do not mind some shake from the car urethane mounts, this was good for almost 10 hp and 17 ft trq. but will shake, also so you know if you do do a programmer and plan to rev past 7,000. get rid of the a/c system if you have, the compressor will pop and i mean it will blow if you rev to that often or past that. and does make a mess. also a under drive if you do not plan on stereo. you will like, and still get over 24 city with all this, i got 340 city to tank and 510 highway, but i have the 5 speed auto not 4 speed, witch you might, check what you have this will make big change in the way the car drives. let me know if you need anymore info, also if you find the rear brake conversations, i want one! good luck and have fun!!!

Thanks for the info. As I take all of this info in, I will do some more research on some products, will keep in touch and let you know what I find and what gets done. I am hoping to not need to mess with the ECU at all as that can simply ruin everything if not done correctly the first time. After seeing the road blocks ahead, I may just do the SC or turbo kit. Adam, thanks for your input in the boost forum for me. The turbo kit seems cool. I'm waiting on e-mail replies for the Turbo and the SC kits for the previous models. I was sent an e-mail from the company stating all I would need to do is customize piping for the SC kit and it will work with my application. I replied to some of their Q's and I am waiting for a return e-mail from them. Adam and Brad, Thanks again for all of the info and as I said, I will share what I find as well and what actually gets done. Most importantly, what gains are produced. As for the rear disc break conversion, I did some more research and was told by a GM mechanic, that the rear disc brake set up on the IONS will bolt up to any of the models. As they are simple upgrades to all of the models and are standard on the Red Lines. I will look into how true this is and will share what I find....


It's not how fast you go...But how you go fast.

Hello peeps.
I'm back after jumping from forum to forum and researching the hell out of upgrading and modding a plain jane 05 ION with an AT.
All I can say is WOW! What a bitch of a ride to mod! It is so much easier to hot rod an older big 'ol heavy ride...LOL!
Well here's what I got for everyone who is interested (Like um no one..LOL!)

If you can customize and Hybrids are your thing...and you can seriously and honestly piece together a Turbo kit and/or CC for an 05 ION with an AT...Simply put you are DA MAN! Also, after extensive research, Tuning the Turbo and/or SC is going to be extremely difficult if not at all.
So with all of my yappin' being said...
Here's my plans on making extra ponies without killing my ride.
All Bolt on performance. Go figure! LOL!!!!

Injen Cold Air Intake
Pacesetter Headers
Pacesetter Cat-back exhaust
High-flow cat
High Flow resonator
HO intake manifold
Port the throttle body to match
MAF Translator Pro (basic 2.2 tuner)
B&M racing shift plus AT electronic shift improver 3 level upgrade kit
Rear disc brake conversion kit from SSBC

Now I read in other forums that Porting and Polishing the heads is not necessary as our heads flow great. So that's out (and I get to save the coin for it!)
If this is untrue, someone jump in and lemme know and I will simply add it o my list.

Starting out with my 140 HP stock engine, these mods will bring me up some decent ponies NA without any major tuning, forced air or juice. Whereas, if I went with any forced air I would be looking at about 4-5K and I would need a piggy back or re-flash. Both of whom are either not available or a bitch for the 05 + Saturn.

Let me know your thoughts...
They are appreciated...

ED



It's not how fast you go...But how you go fast.

Quick FYI on the Saturn ION sedan rear disc brake conversion...I found a proper kit and Red-Line rears won't work...unless you don't mind a hybrid set up.

Check out my thread in the suspension forum...

"05 Ion sedan Disc Brake conversion"




It's not how fast you go...But how you go fast.

E.D.

Unless the "B&M racing shift plus AT electronic shift improver 3 level upgrade kit " also produces the effect of a high-rpm launch like torque converters do, your automatic is going to baaaaawwwwwggggg when you floor it.

High-flow exhausts and (big bore) intakes are for high rev's. The mods you list will benefit the stick shift guys.

On a side note, what is this about 10hp/17tq with just a motor mount that brad eisenhauer wrote about? How the heck does holding your motor more still get more power to the wheels? O, and are these dynoed wheel measurements?

Thanks.

105% agree with Eugene, but the motor mount will give instant hp and torque no gain. dyno curve will be different but same hp at the end

Hey Hucker.

I don't understand what you wrote.

Are you saying the motor mount will give hp? (yes or no)

Are you saying the motor mount will give torque? (yes or no)

You write "no gain" and different dyno curve. Does this mean the PEAK torque and hp will be the same but the higher hp and torque levels will occur a bit lower in the rpm range now? If so, this is exactly what auto-trans guys need.

Has anyone dynoed the motor mounts (before and after)?

Thanks much.

Eugene Pepi,

By no means am I an expert when it comes to the tuner world. However, I have built a nasty ride or two in my day. Thus, I take pride in educating myself before taking on a project. With that being said, I have done months of research. I mean tons of it. The list I found is really all we have to go with and will give you the amount of HP gains (or close to it) you are looking for. Most of all, it is the quick and simple part that you were looking for.
Any-who,
As for the "B&M racing shift plus AT electronic shift improver 3 level upgrade kit ", it is not meant to give the increased launches. Let us remember the topic at hand, quick, easy and no more than 200 HP. This would be a small (very small) piece of the puzzle. That if left out, with our AT trannies may feel worthless. As I read from the site and have spoken to a few who have used it, the following is true; The B&M Shift-plus Electronic Shift Improver upgrades the performance of your electronic automatic transmission in minutes. Shift-plus electronically improves the characteristics of your transmission and lets you change settings as you drive. Additionally, it won't affect factory warranty and is 50-State Emissions Legal. A simple flip of the switch allows the transmission to operate in the original factory mode, level 1 - firmer than factory, or level 2 - much firmer than factory. Flip it back and you're back to stock. This is a great upgrade for this automatic transmission. This will allow the shift to do what we need, "shift faster".
At no more than 200 HP (or close to it) you wouldn't need the AT to do anything else.

IMO, if you are looking for the thrust you feel in your neck at pedal to the metal time in HP, then you are going about it the wrong way. HP is HP, Torque is Torque, and there are many different ways of achieving the goals of increasing them both. Too many to list here. Either way you are going to put up a decent amount of coin to upgrade 'em. The myth of cheap and easy HP, is just that a myth. And it really needs to get put to bed.
Now, instant results is a whole other ball game. If instant gratification is what you are looking to achieve, then you may want to just spend anywhere from 500 - 1000 on a really good 55 Shot of NOS and a properly installed system by a professional.

One more FYI and I'll give your eyes a rest...LOL!!!
I also, looked up the port and polish aspect of the game, but IMO I found the amount spent for the amount gained, is not a level playing field. Yet, if done correctly, with mirrored finishes and all, you may see a good jump in HP gained. So, depending on who is spending the cash and who is willing to part with their loot, it may be worth it.






It's not how fast you go...But how you go fast.

Oh and PS....

I have yet to find anything (besides in a thread or two in this site) that says changing a motor mount will increase HP and/or torque. When I brought this up to my strip partners, they all gave me the weird eyes and bewildered looks. This seems to be another one of "those" performance upgrades with no legs so to speak.





It's not how fast you go...But how you go fast.

no gain hp and torque

Does this mean the PEAK torque and hp will be the same but the higher hp and torque levels will occur a bit lower in the rpm range now? YES ED but not just the high level but all the curve will ocurr earlier according to me. I dyno my car saturn 05. 128whp/wtq motor mount and trans mount parts will get me closer to my 145 hp that gm annonce because parts absorb torque. I mean at the flywheel its 145hp . http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hR00H-U3RR8

mod: injen cai, fidanza flywheel, header /downpipe redline, catback2.25 without resonator

get your car lighter for free hp/weight
130hp/1400kg
130hp/1200kg

did you send a picture of your pcm to hptuner? I did and doesnt work with my 05 saturn sedan

sorry they will not increase top hp or trq unless in low rpm, if motor and trans do not move power goes straight to wheels not used to move engine. but you do get increase cause of limited movement at first. and stronger shifts.

OK. Then changing the motor and tranny mounts it is. Like I said, I'm no expert in this new world, so I'll take your word for it. Especially since at this point, every HP gain is a good one being that there aren't many options available.
Hucker, when you asked if I sent a picture of my PCM to HPTuner, what did you mean or what were you referring to?




It's not how fast you go...But how you go fast.

hptuner is a software that give some possibilty to tune a ecotec. but it is not every ecotec that is working with. they have send a email back to me. take a picture of your pcm to see if the software work but it doesnt. with the bar code on it they can tell you if hptuner work but i my case no chance. He tell me 6 month of R/D and it too much $$$$$$$$$

you can try: http://www.hptuners.com/