hotbug1776 wrote:The Volkswagen type 1 aircooled motor. It truely lasts forever, they make more performance parts for it than any other motor (including performance blocks), and ANYONE can work on it.
My 72 type 2 1600CC im building up.
but @!#$ Jcwhitney keeps sending me the wrong crush rings
Ty (Loves teh roras) wrote:hotbug1776 wrote:The Volkswagen type 1 aircooled motor. It truely lasts forever, they make more performance parts for it than any other motor (including performance blocks), and ANYONE can work on it.
My 72 type 2 1600CC im building up.
but @!#$ Jcwhitney keeps sending me the wrong crush rings
then order from one of the thousands of other dealers...litterally. Nice looking motor, I'm working on a T4 1700 turbo project. when it's done it will be a 2.3L with a crapload of parts from RAT.
hit me up on email, I'll get you a short list of some other parts dealers.
www.cip1.com (I think)
www.mamotorworks.com <- good selection.
Thanks hot bug, im just rebuilding the motor for a friend of mine,
and thatsk for the links, hes the one paying for evreything, im just building the engine, and im looking into getting a Bhaha bug or a thing
The old Poncho Super Duty 2.5L. Found a 1987 Hot Rod magazine at a local garage sale with a Super Duty build up, 3.0L with the ability to acheive 370hp reliably with a few modifications including a dual OHC head.
GM 2.0L OHV, may be anemic but obviously able to outlast the transmissions they were mated too.
GM Ecotec. If I remember the Hot Rod article a few years back about this engine correctly the stock internal's are able to reliably handle 300+ hp.
Saturns 1.9L. Able to take a beating and keep on going.
You guys don't know what the hell you're talking about.
You can't even have this discussion without talking about motorcycle engines. My Kawasaki Ninja has .636 liters and makes 139hp (131hp w/o ram air effect occuring above 130mph). That's 219hp per litre... if it had a liter. That's the equivalent of a 2.0L motor making 437hp
naturally aspirated
Who can beat that?
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hotbug1776 wrote:The Volkswagen type 1 aircooled motor. It truely lasts forever, they make more performance parts for it than any other motor (including performance blocks), and ANYONE can work on it.
x1000
Been around since the 1930's and people are still building them. People have been hot roding them and forced induction became available in the 1950's thanks to the Judson and Okrasa superchargers. Empi, Scat, and Deano Dinosaur really put them on the map in the 60's and 70's. It wasn't uncommon to see beetles whooping up on big block muscle cars in southern California back in the day...
AGuSTiN wrote:You guys don't know what the hell you're talking about.
You can't even have this discussion without talking about motorcycle engines. My Kawasaki Ninja has .636 liters and makes 139hp (131hp w/o ram air effect occuring above 130mph). That's 219hp per litre... if it had a liter. That's the equivalent of a 2.0L motor making 437hp naturally aspirated
Who can beat that?
I talked about 2 bike engines, perhaps you should have read the thread
Also, what have you done to the 636? It certainly doesn't make 131 HP on any dyno I've seen in stock form. Roger Hayden's 600 makes about 140 HP but seeing as the 636 is not race qualified, I can't see any racers giving it a serious tuning job. I'll quote numbers from Jake Zemke's CBR600 next time
I have been there for dyno tuning with a slip on and it made about 110 at the wheel, so at best 12XHP at the crank, with a slip on and a PC.
Keep in mind that engines do not scale up. That same design but in a 2 litre would not make 437HP, not even close. If that were true than the little scale model engines like the Nitro powered COX engines would be dominating the world. They make crazy power for their size, but they can only do it because they are small. Low recipricating mas leads to crazy high rpm to make power. Notice the ZX10R (also Kawi) makes more like 165HP, not over 200.
The RC211V is still, hands down, the best race bike engine ever (to date)
PAX
Guys at Kawiforums dyno their stock bikes at 115-125hp (depending on dyno). Remember, like any dyno at wheel, you have to account for parasitic losses of the tranny, etc. A bike should clearly have less loss than a car, however.
The ZX6R (the 636) isn't built for a track, it's built for the street. The ZX6RR is built for the track. It's the same bike, but with 36 less CC's, and a stiffer suspension tune. All race parts that fit the ZX6RR fit the ZX6R. BTW, you can race a 636 on a track, but you'll have to run with the 750's and above.
And you don't have to be intro track racing to tune a bike. I mean, please, like car guys have to be into drag racing or track days to have a reason to build a car?
I know engines don't scale just as they are, but scaling them isn't necessarily what you'd do. You'd do like some guys and mate a couple of engines together, essentially creating an 8 cyclinder engine. I saw this on TV and had some links (I'll try to find them).
As you know, motorcycles are a performance bargain that cars can't match. Period. But I paid $8500 for a vehicle that weighs 380lbs. Clearly I've paid for technology, development and a superior manufacturing process.
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My point was that Team Hayden is making 140HP with their 600, and an unlimited budget and Kawi factory support. Do you really think any street tuner can hit the numbers they hit? Not likely, although race tuning isn't always for all-out power, ofter they will change the curve to save tire wear etc. but HP still wins races so power is still top of the list.
Too bad about the 636, I hear it's going the way of the Dodo. Nice bike, but it's gone and I'm not sure why. Perhaps the lack of race support (racing with 750 is great for amateur racers or pro/am races, but not full on pro) killed sales, or maybe some other reason. AMA does not have a 750 class nor do any of the bike European or Asian series. Only smaller regionals support that class, so that may have factored in as well.
What I have seen so far of the testing done on the new MotoGP 800cc bikes looks really promising. We'll have to wait for engine specs and power out but I do know the Duc was running laps within 1 second of race pace at Brno on it's first day of testing.
You're in Cali right? Can you do track days at Laguna? Just curious. I'd love to ride there or maybe Road America in Atlanta some day. Tight technical tracks with many downhill blind corners. Great way to bring your skills up (or tuck the front, depending)
I agree that bikes are, by far, the best bang for the buck out there, hands down, no contest.
PAX
Hahahaha wrote:My point was that Team Hayden is making 140HP with their 600, and an unlimited budget and Kawi factory support. Do you really think any street tuner can hit the numbers they hit? Not likely, although race tuning isn't always for all-out power, ofter they will change the curve to save tire wear etc. but HP still wins races so power is still top of the list.
Well, I think you hit on the head with the statement "although race tuning isn't always for all-out power". I don't recall anyone hitting 140hp at the wheel. Sportbikes gain 1hp here, 2hp there. Even with full exhaust, chip and cam, most tuners would be lucky to near 130hp. However, I've seen more than a few turbo 600's past 160hp, some near 200hp. That's hardly uncommon.
Hahahaha wrote:
Too bad about the 636, I hear it's going the way of the Dodo. Nice bike, but it's gone and I'm not sure why. Perhaps the lack of race support (racing with 750 is great for amateur racers or pro/am races, but not full on pro) killed sales, or maybe some other reason. AMA does not have a 750 class nor do any of the bike European or Asian series. Only smaller regionals support that class, so that may have factored in as well.
Kawasaki only leaves their bikes on the market for two years before changes occur. The 03-04 636's have inferior suspension and engines to the 05-06's. That's just the way it is, nothing really new there.
Hahahaha wrote:
You're in Cali right? Can you do track days at Laguna? Just curious. I'd love to ride there or maybe Road America in Atlanta some day. Tight technical tracks with many downhill blind corners. Great way to bring your skills up (or tuck the front, depending)
PAX
Yeah, a track day at Laguna runs about $200 on average. You'll make get an hour of total on-track time at that price. But for a beginner or intermediate level rider, that might be plenty. Laguna is no joke.
The better deal is a motorcycle school weekend. Spent $1100 dollars and get schooled by pros for a weekend.
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217BHP at 8000 rpm is cool, but with a 8.4k rpm redline, that power isn't very usable is it?
I still say Honda, but not the K series.. Actually not Honda proper, but HRC.. They know how to build an engine that's for sure.
In cars though, Mitsu's 4G series (the 4G63T in specific) are just fantastic.
RC211V dammit! Even if it is a V5, it's only .99 litres and makes over 250HP and that's plain cool.
PAX
L61, LE5, LSJ, or the LNF ecotec
I think the LNF is going to quickly emerge as the king simply because it has a few years of development and lessons learned from the previous engines, as well as cutting edge technology and a very robust structure to work with... and a turbo
The L61 in a destroked 2.0 liter and later a 2.2 liter square bore/stroke layout puts down 1000hp and 1500hp respectively and in an earlier incarnation of the 2.0 liter with 10:1 compression made 800hp on 22psi of boost.
That is not a high boost pressure for that amount of power.. Talk about efficiency.
Honda's B, mitsu's 4G, Nissan's SR, and Subaru's EJ are aging powerplants that have years of aftermarket development as their only advantage.
As the ecotec engines advance and aftermarket companies have more time with them, we'll start seeing some more street driven insane ecotec powered cars. The stereotype of the J-body made the ecotec's first few years of release rocky, which I think is why GM killed the car and brought in the cobalt to start fresh.
