hey everyone Im new to ecotec. i work for a gm dealership and get parts extremely cheap. can anyone tell me what all i need to do to get 300hp with gm parts and Megasquirt? i have read alot on performance upgrades..... but nothing dead on what parts i need to buy from who (preferably GM).

This is just a guess (let me know if im in the ballpark) studed main saddle and head. should i go with a performance head or will the stocker do?? copper head gasket

would 13psi get me 300. also would a gm supercharger get 13psi, is this enough / to much boost for basicaly stock lower end? (supercharger and turbo's are completly new to me)

exhuast will be basically non exsistant possibly no muffler at all (its going in a '64 vw bug)

obviously the plastic intake will have to go (even if it will handle the boost im not cool with the idea of having plastic engine parts) wich intake and from who should i get it or make my own?

cam and gears? im clueless were to even start also what about hd valve springs.... cuise rpm at hwy spd will be around 2200

yes this will be a daily driver and it will be driven extremely hard off and on road (right foot to the floor or not at all)

ok well sorry for all the questions im just getting started with this eco i hope its as tough as people say. (I will find out ; ) )

thanks for any help you can provide

Joe

my advice is HPtuners and a hahn stage2 turbo kit and you would be right up there in the ball park. now if you decide to put sopme work into your engine I would look at forged rods and pistons along with a Patriot stage 1 or 2 head. Everything you do to make detonation go away the further you can push the envelope.



"Racing is life Everything else is just waiting"
Phil

would 13psi get me 300. also would a gm supercharger get 13psi, is this enough / to much boost for basicaly stock lower end? (supercharger and turbo's are completly new to me)


My question to you is are you getting an 2.0 or 2.2 ECOTEC for your VW?

If you're looking to run smaller than the GM kits pulley (3.5"), how are you going to properly cool it? Excuse my ignorance if I'm incorrect but isn't that year VW bug have an MR drivetrain? If it's Front engine, then nevermind but i'd look into the aftercooling system (A-T-W).

which intake and from who should i get it or make my own?

You can get the Saab 9-3 (2003+) 2.0 Intake manifold. It's an ECOTEC and comes with an alluminum intake manifold.

Cams and Gears

GM sells adjustable cam gears, Camshafts...it depends on what you're aiming for and what motor you're going to be using.

As far as the GM parts you're looking to use to support 300 HP, are you talking about bottom end?


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ok Its a 2.2ltr. yes it is rear engine. as far as CAC I can mount it anywere most likely in the back window above the engine with cooling ducts and the rad. is going to be up front under the "hood". many people are already running this settup and cooling is no problem.



"GM adjustable cam gears, Camshafts...it depends on what you're aiming for and what motor you're going to be using.

As far as the GM parts you're looking to use to support 300 HP, are you talking about bottom end?"



as far as GM parts I'm talking about ported head, forged crank, cams,supercharger.... basically everything. except ecu.

my goal is 300hp and about the same torque range reliable daily driver that will be driven very hard not every day but on weekends off and on road. would like to see 75-100k out of it with no major internal problems with better than average maintanance.


"my advice is HPtuners and a hahn stage2 turbo kit and you would be right up there in the ball park. now if you decide to put sopme work into your engine I would look at forged rods and pistons along with a Patriot stage 1 or 2 head. Everything you do to make detonation go away the further you can push the envelope."

please excuse my ignorance but what is HPtuners? is it a programer for the stock ecu or a stand alone ecu...? I was looking at MS because it's so versitile and can be improved or completely changed for another engine if the eco dosnt pan out.

as far as det. would i be in the correct ballpark with 13psi boost or not? also what would the best way to acheive this kind of boost turbo or supercharger? and also what kind of C/R should i be at. forged rods and pistons are priority im looking for rock solid reliable bottom end parts and I have had very good "luck" with GM parts to perform or out perform what they are advertised.

yet another question comes up what kind of ignition would be good accel or GMobdII coil packs...? as far as I have read on MS website I'm not going to be able to run the coil on plug.

like i said before sorry for the ignorance but I'm just trying to figure everything out and get a good game plan and bugdet before I start buying parts.

thanks,

Joe

Quote:

please excuse my ignorance but what is HPtuners? is it a programer for the stock ecu or a stand alone ecu...? I was looking at MS because it's so versitile and can be improved or completely changed for another engine if the eco dosnt pan out.

HP Tuners basically plugs into your OBDII port and can change anything that your stock PCM controls.
You can find out more information on it at www.hptuners.com

Quote:

as far as det. would i be in the correct ballpark with 13psi boost or not? also what would the best way to acheive this kind of boost turbo or supercharger? and also what kind of C/R should i be at. forged rods and pistons are priority im looking for rock solid reliable bottom end parts and I have had very good "luck" with GM parts to perform or out perform what they are advertised.

Turbocharged to be completely honest. The M62 charger just starts to be more of an oven than a power adder after a while (in my opinion). Your 10:1 ratio is fine but if you want to lower it to keep chances of detonation lower, that's fine as well. Many go for 9:1 or even lower...it's all preference. I don't think you'll be able to find much stronger pistons from GM than the LSJ pistons (unless you're possibly able to use the LNF pistons). The LSJ pistons are supposed to be 9.5:1 compression pistons. How much PSI you'll have to run to reach your goal really depends on alot of factors...there isn't a solid answer but a properly running turbocharged setup can get you there (with the proper size turbocharger).

Your stock ignition is good for the power you're trying to achieve but if you want to, you can upgrade to an MSD ignition system. For information, check this out: http://www.ecotecforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=204

Check out www.hahnracecraft.com for more information on their kits.

If you have any further questions, you can reach me @ ecotecforum.com



www.kronosperformance.com / 732-742-8837

for 300 hp all you need is forged pistons, eagle h beam conn rods, turbo cams, lightened crank, stage 2 turbo kit from hahn and HPT to get it just right and dont worry about the stock IM, gm made 550hp before they switdched to a log style


many changes in the making
my favorite part about doing bodywork,.......... bondo bugers

John VanCuran wrote:for 300 hp all you need is forged pistons, eagle h beam conn rods, turbo cams, lightened crank, stage 2 turbo kit from hahn and HPT to get it just right and dont worry about the stock IM, gm made 550hp before they switdched to a log style

Ryne from Team Vision Racing has reached 300 HP without even touching the engine. It's possible. Some of the stuff you listed any necessary.


www.kronosperformance.com / 732-742-8837

300hp is easy if you run the blower the 10:1 will get there with 12-14 psi or little less with exhaust and filter change. the internals are fine till 350hp but for reliability just the rods and pistons with rings would do fine. 2.2 will make close to 310hp to the wheels with better mounts, clutch flywheel supercharger at 12 psi and cone filter. everything will hold in the 2.2 till 350hp i have 3 motors to prove at 360hp or just over the rods will go south for the winter!!!! so just change the rods and pistons and rings, than you are good till just over 400hp than you will need head studs and gasket till 550hp, than the crank and cams. the stock cans with bates stage spring will go to 400hp easy. and use the cam gears at the same time from gm and set with the specs and 300hp will be way in the past. i can give you list of parts you will need just say the word, i will help the best i can, good luck, and hope you keep it on the track.

brad eisenhauer wrote:300hp is easy if you run the blower the 10:1 will get there with 12-14 psi or little less with exhaust and filter change. the internals are fine till 350hp but for reliability just the rods and pistons with rings would do fine. 2.2 will make close to 310hp to the wheels with better mounts, clutch flywheel supercharger at 12 psi and cone filter. everything will hold in the 2.2 till 350hp i have 3 motors to prove at 360hp or just over the rods will go south for the winter!!!! so just change the rods and pistons and rings, than you are good till just over 400hp than you will need head studs and gasket till 550hp, than the crank and cams. the stock cans with bates stage spring will go to 400hp easy. and use the cam gears at the same time from gm and set with the specs and 300hp will be way in the past. i can give you list of parts you will need just say the word, i will help the best i can, good luck, and hope you keep it on the track.

When you are using the term blower, are you talking about the M62 charger?


www.kronosperformance.com / 732-742-8837

yes sorry i call supercharging blowers and turbo's turbo's sorry again

brad eisenhauer wrote:yes sorry i call supercharging blowers and turbo's turbo's sorry again

Ok with that said, there is no way he's reaching 300 WHP with just the blower and 12-14 PSI.

If you read this: http://www.ecotecforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1845

My friend is pushing 214 WHP running max 9-10 PSI. 2-4 PSI more isn't going to max a huge jump in power with an roots charger.


www.kronosperformance.com / 732-742-8837

what engine is he running? and compression? a higher 10:1 not not as safe to run boost but makes higher hp # do to the combustion camber size and it is already close to atmofearic pressure. that is how a stock 10.5:1 Honda s2000 can make 360hp+ to the wheels with only 6-8psi. yes the engine flows better and all but it also has a factory higher hp than ours. and with 12-14psi and 10:1, the right fuel and exhaust and cam gears and filter and mounts it will make 300hp no problem. try it. on a 2.2 not a 2.0!!! have you ever seen the power the 2.0 makes with out any forced induction? 98.6hp at best to the flywheel! it is meant for forced but with out it it can not out power a dam weed wackier! the 2.2 stock depending on year is 140hp, figure the drop in the 2.0 205 down to say 99hp and so you know that was the best out of 5 pulls! that 106 less with out the blower, add that to the 2.2 stock 140 you have 246hp witch if you read the adds for the 2.2 kits that is why they advertise the 250hp at the flywheel. now take the fact of higher compression, than you run better exhaust and intake and than more fuel and 2-4psi more in boost. it will make just over or around 300hp. i tuned the 2.2 with no force induction first it made 209 to the wheels and i never lost to a red line or ss cause the auto gets me out of the whole fast and i had power the whole time do not need to wait for it to build. that was with header 2 1/2" exhaust because had plans or the forced induction, intake Ls1 throttle body, iridium plugs spark springs and ignition amp. light weight crank pulley and motor and trans mounts. not trying to argue just help the people, i spend the money the time and blew the motors. so do not comment about this unless you think and find out first. trust me try it!! anyway good luck.

brad eisenhauer wrote:what engine is he running? and compression? a higher 10:1 not not as safe to run boost but makes higher hp # do to the combustion camber size and it is already close to atmofearic pressure. that is how a stock 10.5:1 Honda s2000 can make 360hp+ to the wheels with only 6-8psi. yes the engine flows better and all but it also has a factory higher hp than ours. and with 12-14psi and 10:1, the right fuel and exhaust and cam gears and filter and mounts it will make 300hp no problem. try it. on a 2.2 not a 2.0!!! have you ever seen the power the 2.0 makes with out any forced induction? 98.6hp at best to the flywheel! it is meant for forced but with out it it can not out power a dam weed wackier! the 2.2 stock depending on year is 140hp, figure the drop in the 2.0 205 down to say 99hp and so you know that was the best out of 5 pulls! that 106 less with out the blower, add that to the 2.2 stock 140 you have 246hp witch if you read the adds for the 2.2 kits that is why they advertise the 250hp at the flywheel. now take the fact of higher compression, than you run better exhaust and intake and than more fuel and 2-4psi more in boost. it will make just over or around 300hp. i tuned the 2.2 with no force induction first it made 209 to the wheels and i never lost to a red line or ss cause the auto gets me out of the whole fast and i had power the whole time do not need to wait for it to build. that was with header 2 1/2" exhaust because had plans or the forced induction, intake Ls1 throttle body, iridium plugs spark springs and ignition amp. light weight crank pulley and motor and trans mounts. not trying to argue just help the people, i spend the money the time and blew the motors. so do not comment about this unless you think and find out first. trust me try it!! anyway good luck.

I understand your response but I'm talking about the logic behind the M62 supercharger and the 2.2 ECOTEC engine (he is 10:1 compression, stock engine, L61). If you read that thread above, he's only creating 214 WHP with 9-10 PSI max and you're suggesting 2 to 4 more PSI and he'll reach 70+ WHP, that's logically impossible with his setup. The point is, the M62 charger isn't that efficient and just doesn't flow as well as say a properly sized turbocharger.



www.kronosperformance.com / 732-742-8837

that is possibly because with no exhaust or intake change, motor mounts and some ignition parts he should be reel close, when we changed the header on a 2.0 it made 17hp over stock with still factory exhaust and no intake than cone filter 12hp. and than figure in the 2-4psi plus ignition upgrades, plugs booster and spark springs. than he needs to dyno the car.

Quote:

I don't think you'll be able to find much stronger pistons from GM than the LSJ pistons (unless you're possibly able to use the LNF pistons). The LSJ pistons are supposed to be 9.5:1 compression pistons.

Ok so what engines/years/cars did these come from? I don't know what LSJ and L61 engine diff's are.

also can the hptuners turn the rev limiter off?

Quote:

Ryne from Team Vision Racing has reached 300 HP without even touching the engine. It's possible. Some of the stuff you listed any necessary.

What exactly do you mean? Are they running stock cams and head still?

Yet another hpt question. since i am able to "tune" anything the ecu controls would one ecu be better to start with then the other? Like year make and model that would be better?

I think I've dicided on a hahn stage 2 turbo, The LSJ pistons you stated above, eagle Hbeams? are they necessary? I have got alot of mixed opinions on this. all i know is I have tore two of these engines down and both of them had bent rods and both were N/A. this could be due to hydrolok but it's giving me buterflys in the stomuch thinking about stock rods with any kind of boost after seeing them bent so bad the pistons actually contacted the crank. I have also heard that the 2.0 rods are much stronger than the 2.2 is this true if so I will go this route(at least it will make me feel better about the deal). also I am going ahead and installing head studs and gm performance head gasket kit.(anyone know how or what has to be cut on the head to install one of these it says the head has to be machined but how im sending the head off next week to have it checked out and might as well have this done while its in there)

well thats it for now

thanks everyone for all the input

brad eisenhauer wrote:that is possibly because with no exhaust or intake change, motor mounts and some ignition parts he should be reel close, when we changed the header on a 2.0 it made 17hp over stock with still factory exhaust and no intake than cone filter 12hp. and than figure in the 2-4psi plus ignition upgrades, plugs booster and spark springs. than he needs to dyno the car.

The thing I'm pointing out is that you said all he needs is a blower at 12-14 PSI and an exhaust/intake upgrade and he'll be 300 Wheel Horsepower. This is honestly not possible. If you don't believe me, granted slightly lower compression, ask the LSJ guys who are running 19 Pounds of boost and aren't even breaking 300 wheel horsepower and this is with a bunch of bolt ons as well. 70 + Wheel horsepower with 2-4 PSI and an intake and exhaust upgrade with an M62 roots supercharger (on the ECOTEC) is just not happening.


www.kronosperformance.com / 732-742-8837

Quote:

Ok so what engines/years/cars did these come from? I don't know what LSJ and L61 engine diff's are.

also can the hptuners turn the rev limiter off?

LSJ Engine = 2.0 ECOTEC that is found in the SS/SC or Ion Redline (years are 2005+ SS/SC & Redline)
L61 Engine = 2.2 ECOTEC (from 2002+)

HP Tuners can change your limiter to whatever you want.

Joe wrote:What exactly do you mean? Are they running stock cams and head still?

They were. Not anymore. The point I was making is that he was reaching that amount of power and running fast times without any engine work.

Joe wrote:Yet another hpt question. since i am able to "tune" anything the ecu controls would one ecu be better to start with then the other? Like year make and model that would be better?

HP Tuners is very computer specific. I'm not 100% sure but I believe it's all ran through Vin #s to even use the program (as far as what year you have and things like that). If you buy an HP Tuners device that is for your 2003 2.2 ECOTEC (for example) you can't use it on a 2.0 ECOTEC computer in a 2005.

To answer your question, no. There isn't a real better and you can't use another PCM.

Joe wrote:I think I've dicided on a hahn stage 2 turbo, The LSJ pistons you stated above, eagle Hbeams? are they necessary? I have got alot of mixed opinions on this. all i know is I have tore two of these engines down and both of them had bent rods and both were N/A. this could be due to hydrolok but it's giving me buterflys in the stomuch thinking about stock rods with any kind of boost after seeing them bent so bad the pistons actually contacted the crank. I have also heard that the 2.0 rods are much stronger than the 2.2 is this true if so I will go this route(at least it will make me feel better about the deal). also I am going ahead and installing head studs and gm performance head gasket kit.(anyone know how or what has to be cut on the head to install one of these it says the head has to be machined but how im sending the head off next week to have it checked out and might as well have this done while its in there)

If you're getting aftermarket Rods, get aftermarket Pistons to be honest. Check out Wiseco, you can find them all over the place...you could contact Karo @ Car Customs.net, he can get whatever compression you want. The rods, yes, if you're aiming for 300+ WHP reliably for a long period of time, yes, get them. The rods are dinky compared to something like the Eagle rods. Get something nice and strong to ensure strength.

No matter what, I'd honestly stay away from stock parts even though you can get deals. Stock vs. Aftermarket, you can't compare.



www.kronosperformance.com / 732-742-8837

if you are using arp head stud kit for the ecotec there is no work needed to the head, just lock tight in the studs wait over night and reinstall the head with the washers and nuts and torque to factory spec. also i would use a cometic head gasket, we tried the gm gaskets and they lose hold after 400hp. you may not go this high but cometic's is cheaper too!! as for the rods go with the eagle rods you will be happy, trust me, and keep the 10:1 even if you go with forced induction!!!! the forged pistons will take it

Hey all thanks for all the info guys i really apriciate it. I just got through reading alot of stuff about turbos and fuel systems... I now think im more confused than before with FMU's BOV's EMI's and all those other fancy ab.'s that I never heard of.

ok honestly do yall think im in over my head here?

I have decent knowlege of FI systems and engines(lets just say im not an idiot). I have built decent engines before but all N/A. Turbos(besides replacing them when they blow a 6" dia. of oil out of an exhaust stack) I am completly new to. Tuning with Hp tuners is a complete blur as to what im up against let alone tuning a turbo engine for the first time. I am fimiliar with map sensors iat sensors ... and what they do. I'm the "electrical guy" for my shop but on diesel engines so general knowlege in sensors and electricity very few are the same in diesel and cars(although getting more and more the same over the past few years with emission laws). I dont know guess im just a little overwelmed with some of the info I've read.

Please be brutaly honest have you seen anyone be succesfull with an engine like this for the first turbo settup and basice knowlege?

thanks

Joe

joe wrote:Hey all thanks for all the info guys i really apriciate it. I just got through reading alot of stuff about turbos and fuel systems... I now think im more confused than before with FMU's BOV's EMI's and all those other fancy ab.'s that I never heard of.

ok honestly do yall think im in over my head here?

I have decent knowlege of FI systems and engines(lets just say im not an idiot). I have built decent engines before but all N/A. Turbos(besides replacing them when they blow a 6" dia. of oil out of an exhaust stack) I am completly new to. Tuning with Hp tuners is a complete blur as to what im up against let alone tuning a turbo engine for the first time. I am fimiliar with map sensors iat sensors ... and what they do. I'm the "electrical guy" for my shop but on diesel engines so general knowlege in sensors and electricity very few are the same in diesel and cars(although getting more and more the same over the past few years with emission laws). I dont know guess im just a little overwelmed with some of the info I've read.

Please be brutaly honest have you seen anyone be succesfull with an engine like this for the first turbo settup and basice knowlege?

thanks

Joe

You can never be over your head if you take the time to learn as much as possible before doing anything. When you have a full understanding of the situation then you can answer the question of "Am I over my head?". Now if you mean are you over your head as far as worth of doing or possible of reaching, this all depends on your will and finances. Everyone wants (figuratively) an 400 HP super FWD car but guess what, few do it. It's more work than people make it seem, so as long as you understand this aspect of it, then you should be good.

As far as tuning, it's a learning process. For me, it's hard to learn how to use something if I don't have it in front of me, so HP Tuners, I'd have to learn by having it in front of me. I can suggest a good book on tuning and computer management. I can also suggest a good book on Turbochargers (this book I have in my possesion)...this book is excellent and tells you everything you need and want to know about turbocharging systems.

Also, talk to people who have done stuff like this. Ask their experience. They might offer something more to this project than you can read anywhere on a forum.

If you need any help, feel free to reach me privately or however. My info is in my profile.

Good luck and you're welcome.



www.kronosperformance.com / 732-742-8837

Not to butt in, but I've picked up some really nice racing parts for my L61 off of this place (http://www.mantapart.com/ecotec.html) and I run pretty quick. I've also found that you don't necessarily need to get the GM Supercharger, I got mine off of a Nissan Xterra, if you've got some fabrication expierience it's not too hard and it actually pushes more boost (not much more) than the GM version.