I have a bit of a rigging quesion. The Saturn Ion's all come with an electronic throttle body and pedal. My setup will require me to get a standalone and I'm not sure if I'll be able to use the electronic assembly for throttle control. Anyone know if the throttle control is rigged up to the ECU in anyway dictating whether it feeds more fuel or not. I know that the TPS tells the ECU what % the butterfly is open, however I'm not sure if the Electronic Throttle Actuation system has any effect on the ECU's engine management. If I can't get it to work with my standalone I was going to swap out the electronic for a cable linkage TB and cable pedal...would I be able to use one of these from a different ECOtec powered car say like a Cavy or a Sunfire 02 or 03 model year.
In addition I was on the J Body Library and found that the Ecotec has a MAP sensor on the Intake Manifold. I know the information on the J Body Library may be a bit dated, back to when the ECOtec first came out. But I looked on my engine and it seems to me that the MAP Sensor is still there, in addition to that stupid MAF Sensor after the Airbox. The Standalone I'm looking at is the ACCEL DFI, heard some good things about it as it uses most of the stock sensors. My setup will be using the LSJ Intake manifold and I was wondering if anyone has pics or a location, or even if the Manifold has a MAP sensor bung on it. Thanks in advance for the help if anything crops up.
Tim
The LSJ map sensor is on top of the supercharger. The MAF is on the air intake box.
HRMM so this means I may have to do some tapping to put the MAP sensor on the Manifold. I'm going to put a throttle body directly onto the Manifold, in other words, no supercharger. I need an adapter plate of course, between the TB and the manifold and I was thinking since the adapter will be a decent size (probably 3 - 4 Inches tall) could I put the MAP sensor on the adapter plate, directly after the TB. It would still measure the MAP I'd think since it's technically IN the Manifold just on an extension of it. Or is actuall on the Manifold the preferential place for the MAP sensor.
Thanks for the help.
That's a tough one. probably on the adaptor plate. If you attempted to tap the LSJ IM and place it where it is on L61IM, there might not be enough space for it. Becuase the space between the TB opening and where it mounts to the head is alot smaller space than that space on L61. The opening on the LSJ IM is a decently large sized square, opposed to the smaller circular opening on L61.
On L66 (3.5 Honda), the MAP is on the TB directly behind the butterfly.
On L61(2.2L) it is on the IM between the TB port and the intake ports to the head.
On L81 (3.0L) it's on the upper intake manifold
Those are locations of the MAP on all Saturn engines, might help you decide where you might want it.
The TPS is a variable resistor that according to the GM Cavalier service manual from Helm Inc. is actually wired to the PCM powertrain control module. 5 volts from a bus is on one side of this resistor, the wiper arm is the throttle body butterfly position and the other side of the resistor is ground. You shouldn't have any problem duplicating this signal with a standalone system. The MAP sensor is on the intake manifold the IAT sensor on the air intake. What other sensors the standalone system needs should come from the maker of the unit you plan to use.
no... thats how a STANDARD TPS works. quite a bit different with TAC.
from SI
GM Service Information Doc #1305325 wrote:
The throttle assembly contains the following components:
• The throttle blade
• The throttle actuator motor
• The throttle position (TP) sensor 1 and 2
The throttle body functions similar to a conventional throttle body with the following exceptions:
• An electric motor opens and closes the throttle valve.
• The throttle blade is spring loaded in both directions and the default position is slightly open.
• There are 2 individual TP sensors within the throttle body assembly.
The TP sensors are used to determine the throttle plate angle. The TP sensors provide the engine control module (ECM) with a signal voltage proportional to throttle plate movement. The TP sensor 1 signal voltage at closed throttle is near the 5-volt reference and decreases as the throttle plate is opened. The TP sensor 2 signal voltage at closed throttle is near the low reference and increases as the throttle plate is opened.
youre are better off using a cable throtle, unless your aftermarket stuff is specifically setup for e-throttle.
ChillyRedQC . wrote:in addition to that stupid MAF Sensor after the Airbox.
...and why is the MAF sensor stupid?
actually the drive-by-wire was added in 2005. the previous 03-04 were cable driven. if you're going standalone, why not get a tb and pedal assembly from a 03-04 ion and use that?
it would save you the trouble of wiring your stock setup.
-DS
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